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Wednesday, 14 March 2012

Did The Croatian Space Program Help The U.S. Put Men On The Moon?






Update May 15, 2012- Since adding a link on this blog for comments, suggestion or questions, I've come across some astounding eye opening material. Without naming names or sources, all I can say is I was shocked that this information, complete with drawings, photocopied military documents and records, archived top secret footage and photographs, from a number of countries, was passed onto me. Thrown into my lap practically. In the end all I can say is that my views have been indicated and.....much, much more. The world is much more complicated and intriguing a place than most people know or realize, the tentacles of subterfuge are in places you never knew existed, and if most people did know, the information would most undoubtedly astound and perplex their minds to the point where they could feel their brains melting, twisting and deteriorating. Even their own belief systems would become worthless, tearing their minds asunder to the point where they would walk around all the time with one eye behind them and one at that shadow coming out of the dark, the shadow that is just around the corner, because it just might be......They could throw out everything they learned in their history books into the trash because the subterfuge has reached every facet of their life. It would actually be more true to say that Croatia would have a much, much better chance of having a space program next year than Yugoslavia ever did.  That's all I am at liberty to divulge...."Long live the Croatian space program!".......




Is there any truth to the rumours of a Dinamo Zagreb and Hajduk Split pendant being left on the moon? If you believe that, then you'll probably believe that Tupac was Russian or German. Read on to find out more about this "space program" that supposedly had the Russians and Americans courting Tito.......





This one probably caught your attention I'll bet, (especially if Croatian background), which was the purpose of the title anyway.  I'm quickly throwing this one in as a sort of a rebuttal to this funny "article" HERE, which I came across recently, that was mixed in among all the others in internetland related to this story.  When I read the title, a big question mark started floating above my head. (Really, it was huge, kind of grey colored and just floating there, floating above my head, then it just disappeared in the blink of an eye, with a big popping sound like a soap bubble). "A Serbian space program?" I thought, "what is this about? I've never heard anything about this before."  The original story and accompanying teaser video made by the Slovenian film producer Ziga Virc has been all over the net, and especially on Youtube lately, where it went sort of viral for a time. I'm talking here about Ziga Virc's offical video teaser "Houston, we have a problem!" (Yugoslavian space program)

As for this funny and also strange piece I mentioned above, named "U.S. going to the moon thanks to Serbia", based on the producer's teaser video and it's subject of a purported Yugoslav space program in the 60's, I'm going to put just a few of my own observations and knowledge here as background information about the supposed space program itself,  about just how Serbian it was or could have been, and whether there was an alleged space program at all. You can read the attached articles below my input for more information about this upcoming documentary from it's Slovenian author Žiga Virc.





 Slovenian producer Ziga Virc.





In a nutshell, Yugoslavia at the time in question, during the early 60's, was being run by Jospip Broz.  Known simply as "Tito." Tito was a big player and shmoozer dictator. Shmoozing with other world dictators, leaders, politicians and heads of state, as well as celebrity personalities and Hollywood starlets even, sometimes even more so. He shmoozed up to the Soviets if needed, then the U.S if needed, and back and forth again. Anything to keep the free funds coming so he could stay in power and keep the communist country in his grip, namely to forcefully keep it together...or else. (That's because besides being photographed shmoozing with celebrities, smoking cigars and shmoozing, drinking champagne and looking cool in dark sunglasses, he had to keep his system running, financing his communist party and his numerous lackeys, keeping his private estates and private island taken care of and well stocked, taking care of his yahts, limousines, big propaganda pageants, expensive military and among other things, paying the salaries of his secret Yugoslav police, the notorious UDBA who watched to make sure the people obey...or else. (Tito's version of the KGB) Assassinations, political prison camps and espionage don't come cheap you know. In those days you had to love Tito and his Yugoslavia...or else bad things happen to you.

Anyway, Yugoslavia at that time included 6 Republics the last time I checked, 5 of them being Non-Serb Republics at that. (And 2 autonomous provinces also). Each Republic having their own governments, bureau of this and that, and flags and symbols even. (Although they were all forced to have the big red communist star included,  national historic symbols of the different poeple were anathema and a big and serious faux pas during Tito's rule. It was a very weird authoritarian country). People from those Republics were involved in various ministries and projects, although mainly they had to toe the Tito communist party line. So again, I find the above article's analogy to a "Serbian space program" as odd and strange and laughable.

(Tito was a quite an odd character as well, without getting into all the particulars of his life, his time as Yugoslav leader/dictator was full of attempts at trying to forge 1 nationality out of different nations, nations with very different histories, civilizational and cultural backgrounds, languages, alphabets, literary and political history etc. Regarding Croatia and Croatians especially. Just mentioning Croatian history from before Medieval times or renaissance times, Croatian literature, Kings, Dukes and Bans or bringing awareness to monuments from Croatia's rich past and historical events could get one thrown into prison. Mention of Croatian Kings was omitted from school books. The statue in Zagreb's main square of Ban (Governor/Viceroy) Josip Jelačić , who played an integral part in Croatian history, and had been erected in 1866, was removed and hidden away. Even the Brethren of the Croatian Dragon, a fraternal society started in 1905, with ties to Croatian nobles Fran Krsto Frankopan and Petar Zrinski was shut down and made illegal. Books censored, histories omitted and fake histories and ideals forced in schools and in publishing, newly invented ideologies  force fed to and by teachers and scholars. It was a time when various peoples and nations of Tito's Communist Yugolavia were through his policies being robbed of their long rich past and being forged into something generic, a void, an unthinking imposter entity, a personality vortex of nothingness, forced to become a Tito so-called "Yugoslav")

...Anyway, this second and last version of Yugoslavia ended in 1991 with the federal state being terminated permanently and the establishing of democratic elections and independence of the Ex-Yugoslavian Republics, which among them included Slovenia (the authors of the documentary are Slovenians), Croatia (Zeljava airbase is today on Croatian territory and the Croatian capital Zagreb was the main centre for aeronautics and nuclear researches in the former Yugoslavia), and Bosnia and Herzegovina (underground parts of the base partially lies on Bosnian territory)






"Hey Houston,  Yugoslavia Is One Big Problem"



  
Photo of entrance to underground abandoned Zeljeva air base today. Photo taken by Croatian motorcyclists. These days anyone can come and snoop around inside. Explosives were used by retreating Yugoslav/Serbian troops in the 90's to make the base unusable. More photos, including interior and surrounding photos of the base can be viewed HERE.





Zeljeva Air Base was just that according to available information and facts, an expensive underground air base built into the side of a mountain on the Croatian border. Not definitely some center for Yugoslav, and especially Serbian, "space program" code named "Object 505."  It was built (Again, thanks to a lot of Tito's shmoozing money, shmoozing can get a dictator billions and billions of dollars you know) also as a type of bunker. For Tito and his officials/entourage, in the case of a Russian or American nuclear attack.

A high level air base? Yes. A possible center for space technology and a space program on a scale of the U.S. or Russia?..pfff, hardly. and not even in the ball park. Even the jet fighters at that time were all supplied from the Soviets, not Yugoslav designed and made. For conspiracy theorists comparing this air base to something akin to "Area 51" are going to be let down I think. No secret high technology space ships, rockets to the moon, space suits, plans to orbit the earth and definitely no little green men of course. Tito sure did get billions through the years though, from America included, and big money loans, but I highly doubt it was in exchange for a secret Yugoslav space program. (He got plenty of tourism money from visitors to the Croatian coast, but not nearly enough to support his enterprises and policies). He got billions for other reasons too, business reasons and propaganda reasons. For allowing western companies to sell their wares and products decades before the other European Communist countries could, until the fall of the Berlin Wall. For even just basically not joining the Warzaw Pact he was having money thrown at him. Maybe for cheap oil too, Who knows?  But highly unlikely in return for some space program.




  
Tito with Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev laying the old Bait and Switch game. Here they are both applauding at a live Ukranian sex show just previous to Tito's departure in time for his meeting with American bankers and government people for another big juicy interest free mega-loan and a look at the newest yacht catalogues.





The main character in this forthcoming "documentary" (Some have already called it a mockumentary in the documentary business) and catalyst of the whole plot is  Herman Potocnik, who is considered a Slovenian, born in present day Croatia, and who did his writing before Yugoslavia was even made.  As for Tito?  He was half Croatian-Slovenian ethnicity anyway. As for the propaganda footage from the time of his rule, it was almost parallel to those Soviet Stalin parades and pagaents. Everybody looking like they are madly in love with the leader, but there was the behind the scenes stuff you didn't see. I spent 2 whole summers in Croatia as an 11 and 12 year old, and the streets weren't all paved in gold like the propaganda films show. Sure some people were driving around Mercedes cars, you could buy Coca-Cola,  Levi's....build a new house or nice villa just outside of town or on the coast, but those were the Croatians that worked and lived mostly in Germany, Italy, Austria, and other places in Non-Communist Europe. They were all even encouraged to work elsewhere and come back with their Deutschmarks, Francs, Liras and Dollars..etc.

The whole concept of Yugoslavia was JUST ONLY bearable because at least the Serbian "Greater Serbia" plan of Draza Mihailovic and his genocidal chetniks was extinguished, and one could at least say they are Croatian, from the Republic of Croatia etc. (Many Croatians initially joined his Partisans because it was known that Hitler's Reich was having problems and wasn't going to succeed. The big turning point was the Russian winter campaign, he made the same mistake like Napolean before him and underestimating the winter was the deciding factor, sort of even like Alexander the Great or Hannibal before them even...Pfff, Elephants? Elephants through the Alps? What was he thinking?) Tito at least (Being Devils advocate here) ..during the war acknowledged Non-Serbs and promised future Republics, including a Croatian Republic based on it's geographical and political history, (although not on it's more rightful and larger historical past), unlike Mihajlovic who was bent on destroying anything, including people, who were Non-Serb and making a Serboslavia, Serbian king, Serbian religion Serbian bread and water and bla bla bla)

However, beyond that and you were in danger of stepping on Tito's toes and vision. His plan to was to eventually disregard the historical Croatian language and cultural history and eventually re-wrap everything under a mixed up, blurry, "Yugoslav" cloak with a blurry, patched together framework like different colours of Play-Doh.."Yugoslavians." It was a very precarious and barely held together Yugoslav house of cards. A lot of deceit and propaganda being displayed to the West. This was proven by Jugoslavia crumbling downhill and falling apart quickly shortly after his death, culminating in the Serbian wars of agression in the 90's. (There was nobody around to make sure people loved him..or else....at the helm). But like I mentioned above, his policies and campaigns against murderous philistine chetniks were an alternative to Draza Mihailovic and his royalist ultra-nationalists who wanted to wipe Croatia(ns) and other Non-Serb people off the map.





The official "Houston, we have a problem!" (Yugoslavian space program) trailer






As for my overall opinion about the Serbianess of this purported Yugoslav space program, mentioned in the link above, and the whole premise of the forthcoming "documentary", I guess it would be this.

 If a complete film is eventually made sometime down the road, I'm sure it will be entertaining.  (Most early endeavors by film or theatre people are usually the most creative, just ask Orson Welles)  One can do tons with old stock footage and symphonic music in the background too. (Just ask Ed Wood)...a mild mannered, intelligent sounding voice for narration and some wacky ideas mixed with some fact and conjecture. All with a dash of suspension of disbelief. It will probably be a hit with the "Area 51" crowd, and probably any conspiracy driven individuals. (X-files fans probably too). Heck, televangelists thrive on using the same modus operandi, telling stories, ridiculous fictions, suspension of disbelief etc, and they have millions of lackey followers believing every word and throwing money at them, legions of servile supporters. But in the end, Yugoslavia was no Soviet Union or U.S  in the space program business. More attention would have been focused on obtaining an atomic bomb, if anything, or at least a really good car or washing machine, before starting a space program, and the atomic bomb idea was already nixed back in the 1960's as well. Besides, it is well documented and has been common knowledge for decades that Operation Paperclip and former German Nazi's, such as Wernher von Braun as just one example, were smuggled into America and were largely responsible for the post war American Space Programm, for the first man on the moon and even for the founding of NASA. (The Russians were doing the same thing though, grabbing whoever or whatever was left over to expedite their space program)





The average person these days doesn't know that Wernher von Braun (in suit and tie to the right) is the person most responsible for the American space program, the first man on the moon and origins of NASA. Postwar Operation Paperclip actually included around two thousand Nazi Germany scientists, tecnicians and engineers. You see, if the American government didn't take them, the the Russians would gladly, and then they would have had the first A-bomb and man on the moon, it's something to keep in mind when watching the early Apollo space missions movies and reruns and even today. 



Wernher von Braun and American President Kennedy during the early days of the American space program and NASA. Yep, Hitler's best and brightest were suddenly America's best and most appreciated pals and people to admire, so you might as well throw the American space program in with Volkswagon, Hugo Boss, Bayer, Fanta, Siemens, BMW and a bunch of other companies directly tied to Hitler's Germany for their existence and success. 



Herman Potocnik, who's writings were allegedly found by Tito's secret service and used for the space program, according to the documentary plot. His ideas and papers definitely existed and his ideas were respected by scientists and still are studied,...but was he or his writings the catalyst and backbone of a secret "Yugoslav space program"?....Not bloody likely, actually not at all.





Tito was more concerned with keeping his Yugoslav machine rolling with him at the helm, and getting funds anyway he could to keep it that way. Oh, and of course to make sure people loved him...or else it would be very bad for their health. (That's the way dictators roll) Best of luck though to Ziga, maybe he will come across a bunch of other interesting stuff during his hunt for facts, archived material and proof of this alleged space program, and use it in his next venture. Perhaps something about a race of  giant long haired, constantly salivating serpent tongued women from Mars maybe, they're nymphomaniacs and have been living in underground caves in the wilderness of Croatia, kidnapping bypassing men and tourists and forcing them to breed with them, and perform all kinds of depraved and fantastical acts. (I think there was a Buck Rogers episode about something similar). That would grab a lot of peoples attention too I think.

Either way, this kind of alternate history stuff always sells, like those stories about the alleged huge medieval porn collection at the Vatican, Reptilian Shapeshifters, the Watchers, Shadow People, Demonic Nuns, Merovingian Illuminati Reptilians, Luciferian Fish-Alien descendants and astronauts, Flat-Earthers, UFO's, various Tin Foil Hat theories, Pyramids on Mars and other planets, Bigfoot Nephilims and these days the 9-11 conspiracy theorists especially among many others. In the end I fail to see a "Serbian space program" anywhere,  am not even slightly convinced of any Yugoslav space program or washing machine and still think in the end Tito was nothing but an opportunistic conniving bourgeois psuedo-commie subversive utopianist one-worlder dictator and shmoozing pretender jerk-off stooge, Stalin-lite basically. If this project does ever come out, I will watch it and even give it the benefit of the doubt, but also investigate the sources and facts. I don't think my opinions will change though. That's it from me.





An interview from Croatian television. (In Croatian)








Did Yugoslav space technology sold by Tito put America in space?





Tito with former American President John F. Kennedy. Here he is asking if the maids on the yacht they just had Hors d'oevre's on, were included.  He's thinking the yacht and maids would really impress Gaddafi to throw some more free oil his way. I don't know if Tito got together later with the former Nazi scientists for some elbow rubbing, but he probably did.



Seen with Kennedy's pal, Cuban president Fidel Castro.




Tito was too busy beefing up and paying his secret service agents for decades to liquidate and assassinate his enemies inside and out, so as to show how benevolent and loveable he was and that people should love him or else, so he didn't have the time or resources to start any sort of space program.





Source: digitaljournal.com

Related: www.geonomis.com


The release of a Slovenian documentary, Houston We Have a Problem, alleges a new twist to the the Cold War: American bought a secret Yugoslav space programme to put it in space.

The posting of a documentary trailer by user YugoslavianSpace on January 9, 2012 is offering a rather unusual twist to the Cold War story, more than fifty years after America announced its intention to go to the Moon in May, 1961.

The trailer claims that the full documentary, entitled Houston, We Have a Problem - to be released later this year - will show that the CIA discovered a secret Yugoslav space programme in 1960 and, behind in the space race with the Soviet Union, they bought the entire programme from Yugoslav President Tito in March, 1961, just two months before President John F Kennedy announced America's lunar ambitions.





Josip Broz "Tito" and the African scumbag tyrant dictator Idi Amin. aka "His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular" and "King of Scotland." (Here he is seen inquiring about some good tips on how to cheaply liquidate his enemies in exchange for shipments of free Vegeta and lip smacking good Gavrilović salamis and hams. Most people don't know Idi Amin was reported to have been a practiser of cannibalism and discussed openly his plans for war against Israel, using paratroops, bombers and suicide squadrons. They are fucking each other ass to mouth in scumbag dictator heaven without a doubt. Tito the bolshevik dictator playboy was quoted as saying a number of times that the Sava river will flow backwards before Croatia ever becomes an independent country again, or that any other people attain independence. Croatia is independent now btw)



Shmoozing with PLO leader Yasser Arafat.



With Stailin's pal, Winston Churchill. All 3 of them shook hands lots and lots of times.



Getting some free oil from Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddaffi. If Tito was still alive he would have been pals with Osama Bin Laden for sure just so he could get free camels, goats and other stuff. Tito was basically a schmoozing wishy-washy political alleyway whore by night and corner store whore by day with his own private army and lots of expensive cigars and brandy.





According to the documentary, the origins of the Yugoslav space programme lay in the writings and work of Herman Potocnik, whose 1929 book Problem Voznje po Vesolju (The Problem of Space Travel) inspired former Nazi and architect of the American space program Wernher von Braun.

What America did not get their hands on were other writings and drawings by Potocnik, and these were found by Tito's secret service in 1947, and they played an important part in the Yugoslav space programme, which was started in 1948.

Living standards in Yugoslavia improved considerably, and the socialist country enjoyed rapid economic development with generous American financial aid.

The trailer claims the documentary will reveal how tito built the biggest secret underground space centre in Europe, and that in fact some of the American rockets were made in Yugoslavia, and that Tito and his wife were regular visitors at NASA's facilities. The base is at Zeljava on the Croatian-Bosnian border, also known as Army Base 505.






Houston, do we have a hoax?




"Look, there goes your space shuttle!" Tito and Elizabeth Taylor. (She was actually just pointing at the big painting of fellow non-aligned nation leader Gamal Abdel Nasser on the wall and asking "Who's that?"





Source: bturn.com



Gregor Bulc

January 11, 2012


Interview with Žiga Virc, creator of “Houston, We Have a Problem!” trailer for his alleged documentary on socialist Yugoslavia’s secret space program supposedly sold to the US in 1961


Posted on YouTube and picked up by numerous social network users, bloggers and even large media outlets, the video has gone viral in a matter of hours, currently with more than a quarter of a million views (and counting). Fascinated by what I had thought was Virc’s ingenious fake trailer for a fake documentary, I contacted him with a list of pre-written questions, some of them being rather surreal in nature. His answers may surprise you, though.



Has anyone from CIA contacted you yet?

CIA hasn’t contacted us yet.



Are you in possession of any secret documents or evidence that might jeopardize the United States or any other country? Have you considered collaborating with WikiLeaks?

As our project is still developing, we’re constantly receiving new information from various sources which we still need to confirm. At this stage of research we’re open for any sources that can help the story/film only. However, we are filmmakers and by this we are only interested in making a film that audience might find intriguing. We are not involved with politics as authour. 





Tito was amazed and thankful after viewing Paul VI's awesome porn and erotic art collection archives when stopping by the Vatican in 1971.





Did the Yugoslav space program have anything to do with the deaths in the Kennedy family? Was Marshal Tito personally responsible for the assassination of JFK?

This topic is not relevant for our film, therefore I do not have an answer to that.



Any chance Tito’s partisans were in possession of a space program during World War Two? Weren’t they in reality the ones responsible for Hitler’s death, striking him with a laser beam from the moon?

Again, this topic is not relevant for our film, therefore I do not have an answer to that.



Is this a trailer for a mystery documentary proper, a trailer for a wicked mockumentary, a promotional trailer for your yet undisclosed project, or a fake trailer to be understood in a similar vein as Robert Rodriguez and Quentin Tarantino’s Grindhouse trailers?

We call this project docudrama and we made a trailer, which consists of information we could gather so far. Docudrama means the film will be based on true events and archives, but we might not get the archives or evidence for some parts and we’ll have to do some dramatisation (as this is usual in documentaries about real crime scenes, for instance).

Right now we can say 90% of facts are confirmed – for instance Slovene Herman Potočnik – Noordung, whose book “The problem of space travel” was a basis for establishing the rocket programme in Nazi Germany and later in NASA. We just got a confirmation that photo of Herman Potočnik is still hanging in NASA headquarters. His work was a great inspiration for the Soviet, German and post-1945 USA space program.

The Yugoslav role in space research is definitely the most intriguing for us and there’s a lot of work to be done. SFR Yugoslavia had a lot of technical resources for war industry. The biggest underground complex was Željava, built as a base for supersonic jets and other high-tech technologies. There are other very interesting facts – for instance, Tito received a stone from the Moon from USA as a souvenir, etc.



Judging from your previous film projects I’d say you are using this genre to get a certain point across? Are you trying to criticize something in particular with regard to former Yugoslavia or is it a critical comment on present day issues?

As always, the basic idea behind my every project is to tell an interesting story that the audience might find interesting. If someone wants to get a certain point across or criticize politics, film might not be the best tool for that. After receiving a lot of positive feedback and contacts for collaboration, I’d say no one finds the story critical in a sensationalistic way.



Your YouTube trailer has gone viral but its claims have been reiterated by various news organizations. Was that your initial intention? What does that say about the state of news media today?

Our initial intention was to present our project that is still in a very early research phase. I have a lot of experience with viral videos but I can honestly say that the best way to make a viral video is not to think about it or plan it as viral. In the past, people tried to make a viral video just for the sake of many views – but usually it didn’t work out. If you’re sincerely telling your story, the audience will feel that.



What kind of secret information sources have you been using? Can you name some of historians and other experts that you collaborated with on this project?

I’d like to emphasise once again that the film is at an early stage of preproduction. Nevertheless, we decided to go public with it and test the audience reaction. So we’re really happy regarding the current feedback as we’re putting a lot of effort in this film. At this point it’s not really a question of what’s true or what’s fiction – the only relevant differentiation is what is confirmed and what is not (yet) confirmed.

Therefore we’re still looking for people that were in any way connected to our topic – Yugoslavian secret space programme, especially in the 1961 when main events were supposed to happen. As we’re in research phase I cannot confirm any of the people involved, since that could have negative influence on our work. We’re getting in touch with some people that are interested in helping us but at the same time do not want their names to be made public. Our production is very strict regarding this, but it’s all for a good cause.



What is your message to the people who believe your video is a trailer for a real documentary?

Right now approx. 90% of facts in our trailer are confirmed and widely available to check, which is probably a very high percentage of actual facts compared to today’s images shown on TV-news. Therefore, I’m sure audience will find it honest and believable.





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